423:
342:
586:
374:
562:
750:. A while back I was confused by the same thing and thought Saratoga Campaign and Battle should be the same. However I'm now inclined to paring down the campaign page so that it forks to each of the individual skirmishes. There's a whole bunch of strategy over several months in the campaign including fights at Fort Ticonderoga. Some of these battles were more than 100 miles apart. In American Civil War battles the format is to keep the campaigns and individual battles separate.
358:
390:
482:
451:
21:
715:. That is at least one too many. I am inclined to believe that "Battle of Saratoga" is the article that should be merged/deleted, because there was no such thing as a "battle of Saratoga". There were two actions, Freeman's Farm and Bemis Heights, eighteen days apart. I suggest that "battle of Saratoga" be a redirect to the Saratoga campaign article, and that the Saratoga campaign article include links to the battles at Bemis Heights and Freeman's Farm.
160:
64:
492:
205:
406:
280:
236:
867:
I find that the article contains good prose, a neutral point-of-view, and contains many citations to apparently reliable sources. I have read
Richard Ketchum's book, and live within walking distance of the Hubbardton battlefield. Nothing I have read or heard at presentations and reenactments at the
681:
Because my time is limited, I have no intention of making these changes myself. I hope someone reading this will attempt to reorganize the
Saratoga articles to make them easier to understand and edit, and to prevent forking. The fact that I must add this notice to four or five different articles is
912:
all the way! Without this gravity-driven gradient water would not flow down a river--or lake--to the sea. Thus, it is normal, especially within military parlance, to speak of traveling 'up' a lake or 'down' a lake--the same as up or down a river. (Only those lakes with no land-surface outlet exist
626:
page, but I felt a brief explanation was called for here. I plan to go build and/or update articles on the inividual battles and events of
Burgoyne's expedition, updating these sections with appropriate summaries as those articles are finished. As always, any help will be appreciated.
660:
article. That person might not edit all three articles, and may not even understand how the three articles relate. Multiply this by the many editors who contribute to the articles over the years, and you get diverging accounts of the battles and
675:
Additionally, there may not be a need for a "Battle of
Saratoga" article at all, since all that information can be divided between the "Saratoga campaign" article and well as the two battle articles. This will prevent confusion and further
789:
As a matter of fact, now that I think about it, that's what I'm going to do. Going to change the title of the "Battle of
Saratoga" article right now, and merge the two separate battle articles into it at some future date.
768:
Another option would be to retitle the "Battle of
Saratoga" article as "BattleS of Saratoga", merge both the Bemis Heights and Freeman's Farm articles into that article in their entirety, and delete the latter two.
381:
254:
932:
I have removed the sentence "Joseph Brant killed and tortured
Indians who did not support the Crown" since the information is not only irrelevant but dubious. While there is an inline citation (Michael Logusz's
397:
258:
670:." Make it clear when the "see main article" notice is used that what follows is a summary of that topic, and that additional information should be added to the "main" article, in order to avoid forking.
430:
266:
365:
250:
349:
246:
413:
262:
908:
Most lakes are NOT flat; ie, 'most' of the world's lakes are integral segments of valley & river systems that accumulate and deliver water from the uplands to the coastal oceans--
987:
143:
1027:
1037:
1022:
552:
1032:
738:
1057:
1017:
1052:
1007:
949:. While I haven't yet been able to access a copy of Logusz's book, I suspect he may have been describing what Patriot propagandists were saying about Brant.
883:
Thanks! (I may not live near the
Hubbardton battlefield, but I visited there this past summer, along with a bunch of other sites related to this campaign.)
1012:
1002:
1077:
1067:
1047:
576:
542:
292:
992:
635:
Great work on all these articles Lou. (I realize I'm writing this more than two years later, so you may not even be watching this page any longer.)
1092:
1042:
600:
1082:
640:
There is one major problem that has developed with this structure over the years since you initially wrote the articles. The issue is that of "
927:
1097:
1072:
1062:
997:
958:
518:
74:
742:
982:
821:
799:
778:
759:
894:
1087:
571:
505:
461:
456:
287:
241:
296:
734:
595:
465:
50:
422:
972:
182:
172:
178:
38:
32:
724:
977:
922:
877:
617:
862:
291:. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a
937:), this accusation is not supported in other reliable and highly-respected sources such as Isabel Kelsay's
913:
with 'flat' surfaces, eg, Salt Lake, the Dead Sea.) I have returned the article to the previous phrasing.--
216:
954:
843:
124:
812:
I think that's a good idea -- basically to include all the action the
Saratoga National Battlefield.
708:
517:
on
Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
712:
667:
657:
645:
623:
497:
839:
817:
755:
694:
136:
117:
950:
687:
222:
84:
80:
903:
891:
20:
341:
159:
63:
8:
585:
733:. Despite the common view of Saratoga as a single battle, it was certainly a campaign.--
704:
653:
373:
831:
813:
751:
700:
649:
88:
42:
918:
873:
858:
683:
514:
561:
885:
795:
774:
720:
966:
846:. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
83:. This is identified as among the best series of articles produced by the
914:
869:
854:
357:
868:
Hubbardton battlefield visitor center contradict the article. Good job.
791:
770:
716:
510:
644:". Suppose that a person wants to add or correct something about the
628:
389:
166:
481:
450:
699:
I am at a loss to figure out why there are separate articles for
641:
648:. There are several possibilities: he or she might edit the
405:
279:
235:
988:
Knowledge featured topics Saratoga campaign good content
509:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the
165:
Facts from this article were featured on Knowledge's
487:
1028:
North American military history task force articles
1038:United States military history task force articles
1023:GA-Class North American military history articles
1033:GA-Class United States military history articles
964:
1058:American Revolutionary War task force articles
48:If it no longer meets these criteria, you can
1018:European military history task force articles
1053:GA-Class American Revolutionary War articles
1008:British military history task force articles
1013:GA-Class European military history articles
1003:GA-Class British military history articles
382:North American military history task force
398:United States military history task force
1078:Mid-importance Capital District articles
1068:Mid-importance New York (state) articles
1048:Early Modern warfare task force articles
285:This article is within the scope of the
993:Mid-importance Featured topics articles
928:Joseph Brant and St. Leger's Expedition
1093:High-importance Hudson Valley articles
1043:GA-Class Early Modern warfare articles
965:
527:Knowledge:WikiProject New York (state)
305:Knowledge:WikiProject Military history
295:. To use this banner, please see the
1083:WikiProject Capital District articles
530:Template:WikiProject New York (state)
431:American Revolutionary War task force
308:Template:WikiProject Military history
503:This article is within the scope of
366:European military history task force
204:
202:
198:
943:Iroquois in the American Revolution
350:British military history task force
221:It is of interest to the following
87:. If you can update or improve it,
13:
1098:WikiProject Hudson Valley articles
1073:GA-Class Capital District articles
1063:GA-Class New York (state) articles
998:GA-Class military history articles
748:Separate but need to be cleaned up
682:an illustration of the problem. --
618:Structure of the Saratoga articles
584:
560:
421:
404:
388:
372:
356:
340:
14:
1109:
983:GA-Class Featured topics articles
41:. If you can improve it further,
490:
480:
449:
278:
234:
203:
158:
62:
19:
1088:GA-Class Hudson Valley articles
939:Joseph Brant: Man of Two Worlds
666:One way to avoid this is with "
547:This article has been rated as
414:Early Modern warfare task force
29:has been listed as one of the
1:
923:06:33, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
593:This article is supported by
569:This article is supported by
521:and see a list of open tasks.
622:There are more notes on the
572:WikiProject Capital District
506:WikiProject New York (state)
288:Military history WikiProject
7:
895:00:14, 3 January 2010 (UTC)
878:23:45, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
863:23:45, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
72:is the main article in the
10:
1114:
844:Talk:Saratoga campaign/GA1
822:02:09, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
800:22:11, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
779:21:45, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
760:17:37, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
743:17:23, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
725:04:01, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
553:project's importance scale
690:19:02, 12 March 2006 (UTC
631:21:43, 11 Dec 2003 (UTC)
596:WikiProject Hudson Valley
592:
568:
546:
533:New York (state) articles
475:
429:
412:
396:
380:
364:
348:
323:
319:
311:military history articles
273:
229:
189:
99:
95:
935:With Musket and Tomahawk
709:Battle of Freeman's Farm
973:Knowledge good articles
959:17:43, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
713:Battle of Bemis Heights
668:Knowledge:Summary style
658:Battle of Bemis Heights
646:Battle of Bemis Heights
624:Talk:Battle of Saratoga
498:New York (state) portal
324:Associated task forces:
941:, Barbara Graymont's
589:
565:
426:
409:
393:
377:
361:
345:
211:This article is rated
978:Warfare good articles
588:
564:
425:
408:
392:
376:
360:
344:
39:good article criteria
33:Warfare good articles
144:Good topic candidate
125:Good article nominee
945:, or Alan Taylor's
416:(c. 1500 – c. 1800)
267:American Revolution
85:Knowledge community
947:The Divided Ground
705:Battle of Saratoga
654:Battle of Saratoga
590:
566:
427:
410:
394:
378:
362:
346:
293:list of open tasks
217:content assessment
100:Article milestones
701:Saratoga campaign
688:(complaint dept.)
650:Saratoga campaign
615:
614:
611:
610:
607:
606:
444:
443:
440:
439:
436:
435:
297:full instructions
197:
196:
153:
152:
75:Saratoga campaign
70:Saratoga campaign
57:
27:Saratoga campaign
1105:
888:
656:article, or the
652:article, or the
535:
534:
531:
528:
525:
524:New York (state)
500:
495:
494:
493:
484:
477:
476:
471:
468:
462:Capital District
457:New York (state)
453:
446:
445:
331:
321:
320:
313:
312:
309:
306:
303:
302:Military history
282:
275:
274:
269:
242:Military history
238:
231:
230:
214:
208:
207:
206:
199:
190:Current status:
183:October 17, 2022
179:October 17, 2019
162:
139:
120:
97:
96:
66:
46:
23:
16:
15:
1113:
1112:
1108:
1107:
1106:
1104:
1103:
1102:
963:
962:
951:Griffin's Sword
930:
906:
886:
838:This review is
834:
697:
620:
601:High-importance
532:
529:
526:
523:
522:
496:
491:
489:
469:
459:
329:
310:
307:
304:
301:
300:
244:
215:on Knowledge's
212:
135:
118:January 2, 2010
116:
12:
11:
5:
1111:
1101:
1100:
1095:
1090:
1085:
1080:
1075:
1070:
1065:
1060:
1055:
1050:
1045:
1040:
1035:
1030:
1025:
1020:
1015:
1010:
1005:
1000:
995:
990:
985:
980:
975:
929:
926:
905:
902:
900:
898:
897:
849:
848:
833:
830:
829:
828:
827:
826:
825:
824:
805:
804:
803:
802:
784:
783:
782:
781:
763:
762:
745:
696:
695:Merge proposed
693:
692:
691:
678:
677:
672:
671:
663:
662:
637:
636:
619:
616:
613:
612:
609:
608:
605:
604:
591:
581:
580:
577:Mid-importance
567:
557:
556:
549:Mid-importance
545:
539:
538:
536:
519:the discussion
502:
501:
485:
473:
472:
470:Mid‑importance
454:
442:
441:
438:
437:
434:
433:
428:
418:
417:
411:
401:
400:
395:
385:
384:
379:
369:
368:
363:
353:
352:
347:
337:
336:
334:
332:
326:
325:
317:
316:
314:
283:
271:
270:
239:
227:
226:
220:
209:
195:
194:
187:
186:
173:On this day...
163:
155:
154:
151:
150:
147:
140:
132:
131:
128:
121:
113:
112:
109:
106:
102:
101:
93:
92:
67:
59:
58:
24:
9:
6:
4:
3:
2:
1110:
1099:
1096:
1094:
1091:
1089:
1086:
1084:
1081:
1079:
1076:
1074:
1071:
1069:
1066:
1064:
1061:
1059:
1056:
1054:
1051:
1049:
1046:
1044:
1041:
1039:
1036:
1034:
1031:
1029:
1026:
1024:
1021:
1019:
1016:
1014:
1011:
1009:
1006:
1004:
1001:
999:
996:
994:
991:
989:
986:
984:
981:
979:
976:
974:
971:
970:
968:
961:
960:
956:
952:
948:
944:
940:
936:
925:
924:
920:
916:
911:
901:
896:
893:
890:
889:
882:
881:
880:
879:
875:
871:
865:
864:
860:
856:
853:
847:
845:
841:
836:
835:
823:
819:
815:
811:
810:
809:
808:
807:
806:
801:
797:
793:
788:
787:
786:
785:
780:
776:
772:
767:
766:
765:
764:
761:
757:
753:
749:
746:
744:
740:
736:
735:201.213.46.44
732:
729:
728:
727:
726:
722:
718:
714:
710:
706:
702:
689:
685:
680:
679:
674:
673:
669:
665:
664:
659:
655:
651:
647:
643:
639:
638:
634:
633:
632:
630:
625:
602:
599:(assessed as
598:
597:
587:
583:
582:
578:
575:(assessed as
574:
573:
563:
559:
558:
554:
550:
544:
541:
540:
537:
520:
516:
512:
508:
507:
499:
488:
486:
483:
479:
478:
474:
467:
466:Hudson Valley
463:
458:
455:
452:
448:
447:
432:
424:
420:
419:
415:
407:
403:
402:
399:
391:
387:
386:
383:
375:
371:
370:
367:
359:
355:
354:
351:
343:
339:
338:
335:
333:
328:
327:
322:
318:
315:
298:
294:
290:
289:
284:
281:
277:
276:
272:
268:
264:
260:
259:United States
256:
255:North America
252:
248:
243:
240:
237:
233:
232:
228:
224:
218:
210:
201:
200:
193:
188:
184:
180:
176:
174:
168:
164:
161:
157:
156:
148:
146:
145:
141:
138:
137:March 6, 2010
134:
133:
129:
127:
126:
122:
119:
115:
114:
110:
107:
104:
103:
98:
94:
90:
86:
82:
78:
76:
71:
68:
65:
61:
60:
55:
53:
52:
44:
40:
36:
35:
34:
28:
25:
22:
18:
17:
946:
942:
938:
934:
931:
909:
907:
904:Au contraire
899:
884:
866:
851:
850:
837:
814:Americasroof
752:Americasroof
747:
730:
698:
661:expeditions.
621:
594:
570:
548:
504:
286:
263:Early Modern
223:WikiProjects
192:Good article
191:
170:
142:
123:
89:please do so
73:
69:
49:
47:
43:please do so
31:
30:
26:
840:transcluded
684:Kevin Myers
967:Categories
511:U.S. state
177:column on
81:good topic
37:under the
852:Reviewer:
832:GA Review
167:Main Page
910:downhill
676:forking.
515:New York
251:European
213:GA-class
149:Promoted
51:reassess
642:forking
551:on the
247:British
169:in the
108:Process
915:Jbeans
892:♪piano
870:Jc3s5h
855:Jc3s5h
219:scale.
181:, and
130:Listed
111:Result
77:series
887:Magic
842:from
792:Vidor
771:Vidor
731:Agree
717:Vidor
629:Lou I
955:talk
919:talk
874:talk
859:talk
818:talk
796:talk
775:talk
756:talk
739:talk
721:talk
711:and
105:Date
79:, a
543:Mid
513:of
969::
957:)
921:)
876:)
861:)
820:)
798:)
777:)
758:)
741:)
723:)
707:,
703:,
686:|
603:).
579:).
464:/
460::
330:/
265:/
261:/
257:/
253:/
249:/
245::
54:it
45:.
953:(
917:(
872:(
857:(
816:(
794:(
773:(
754:(
737:(
719:(
555:.
299:.
225::
185:.
175:"
171:"
91:.
56:.
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.
